Farhan

I am not a lawyer but that is quite a big ask for free....
If there is no budget for legal fees etc why not just keep is simple

until there is.
What are you trying to achieve with the convertible loan? If you could

say what that goal is maybe there is another cheaper easier way to

achieve the same end.
Good Luck
Andrew Cazalet

Chartered Tax Adviser

T - 020 8584 5319

F - 0870 8550453

EM - [address removed] -

W - www.lidotax.co.uk



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		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/should-we-store-all-the-qampa039s-content-we-talk-about-6-6681.html
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		Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:01:00 +0000
		Brian Milnes
				
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		

		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/should-we-store-all-the-qampa039s-content-we-talk-about-6-6681.html
		
			




This bit of the conversation reminded me of 
href="http://www.beprofessional.com">www.beprofessional.com (introduced to

me by Michelle Bray from this group) which even in its free, Lite version has

plenty of good resources for the startup:

href="https://www.beprofessional.com/static/pdf/liteinformation.pdf#view=fit">https://www.beprofessional.com/static/pdf/liteinformation.pdf#view=fit
(and no, I have no affiliation)
Brian
 


From: [address removed]

[mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Carola Derpsch

Sent: 28 April 2009 20:47

To: [address removed]

Subject: Re: [entrepreneur-1056] Should we store all the Q&A’s +

content we talk about?


 
Hi all,
Great ideas in this email.  
Meriem I think Smarta is a great source of info for entrepreneurs

(congratulations on your 3 months!) 
I’d like to add as feedback that it will be awesome to get some kind of legal

support, not only in the form of Q&A’s from your legal partners but also in

the form of legal documents such as shareholder agreements, contracts, terms

& conditions and so on, the basics in order to give a hand to all of us who

are trying to make it for the first time, or second or even third and don’t

have the cash to pay expensive lawyers/solicitors!

All the best,

Carola


2009/4/28 Zebedee <[address removed]>


Geoff

I  think it is an excellent idea to collate the invaluable information

that comes through this forum – so that it is searchable at a later date –

often content does not appear relevant at the time, but later such nuggets of

wisdom can make the difference between success and failure.
 
 
 


 style='width:427.5pt'>




  id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.gif@01C9C844.7D846610"

  alt="The Spring Consultancy">


Growing your Business

  T: +44 (0)78940 33677

  
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  This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in

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From:
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> [address removed]

[mailto:[address removed]]

On Behalf Of Karlheinz Toni

Sent: 28 April 2009 14:06

To: [address removed]

Subject: Re: [entrepreneur-1056] Should we store all the Q&A’s +

content we talk about?



 
Hi Geoff,
if you want, we can just register a new e-mail to the group (nothing would have

to change) and subjects, bodies, etc. are automatically extracted and put in a

forum in a searchable way, etc.
Bests,

Charly

– 

Karlheinz Toni

CEO Piins Ltd.
m: +44 (0) 7767 803 083

e: [address removed]

w: http://www.piins.com
We’re now in public beta! Join the new Web on 
target="_blank">http://piin.it.

2009/4/28 Geoff Wright <[address removed]>

Hey all,

 


Not sure if this has already been mentioned, or if anyone can be bothered -

but I think its a good idea.


 


Phillip mentioned a similar concept in a previous mail, where he’s collated

a list of the best places to find icons, as suggested by this list (
href="http://snagsta.com/people/phillip-hofmeyr/lists/where-to-find-website-icons5264"

target="_blank">http://snagsta.com/people/phillip-hofmeyr/lists/where-to-find-website-icons5264)


 


I read most mails that come through this list, and I’ve seen an outrageous

amount of invaluable content recommended: videos, podcasts, angel investor

networks, funds, events, blogs, sites etc.



So, the question I ask is, do we think it might be a good idea to collate all

this in some sort of searchable area? Might not be a wiki, but I’m going to

have a look anyway.


 


It’d have to be a crowd sourced [buzz buzz] effort.


 


Geoff


 


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		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/video-demo-4-6908.html
		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/video-demo-4-6908.html#comments
		Wed, 15 Apr 2009 05:21:00 +0000
		Omar Miah
				
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		

		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/video-demo-4-6908.html
		
			



interesting conversation
i've been scan reading messages sent
some great links
also look at: www.commoncraft.com
we're going to be using something like this for video's we'll create for our venture
omar
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Aidan Fitzpatrick <[address removed]> wrote:


William

Thanks for the note, but I'm Aidan, not Adrian… and I'm not launching a new start-up. Or rather, I am, but I've not mentioned any of them here…
I am well acquainted with the legislation and regulation around brokering in the UK, not least as I need be to help others to raise investment.
I'd refer any who are interested to the FSA's handbook PERG 2 in the first instance (http://fsahandbook.info/FSA/html/handbook/PERG/2 "Perimeter guidance on regulated activities", but of course, always ask a lawyer.
As you brought that up, I'll likely give you a bell over the coming weeks on unrelated issue that you might be able to advise on…
Best,
A

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 18:30, William Robins <[address removed]> wrote:





Adrian
 
Just saw your note about attracting investors for your new start up.  You should bear in mind that this is classed as ?offering securities? in the eyes of the

 law.  There are many ways of doing it, but you have to jump through some legal hoops or risk legal sanctions.  Feel free to get in touch if you want to explore this in more detail.  Contacts details are below.
 
Good luck.
 

Best wishes,
 
William Robins
Partner
 
 
dd:  020 7152 6550
m:  

07720 836 636
f:     

0845 458 9398
e:    

[address removed]







53 Davies Street, London W1K 5JH

 | 

t: 020 7152 6550

 | 

f: 0845 458 9398

 | 

w:

www.keystonelaw.co.uk

 



From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]]

On Behalf Of Aidan Fitzpatrick

Sent: 14 April 2009 17:53






To: [address removed]

Subject: Re: [entrepreneur-1056] Video demo












 
I see a lot of business plans and investment pitches every week, and from an investor's or mentor's perspective I hate video. I can't digest it easily whilst on the move, I can't print it out, and if it moves

 at a snail's pace I'm a captive, bored audience… or rather, I'm not, because I'll only watch a second or two.
12secondsTV (http://12seconds.tv/) are on to a winner with their 12-second videos, but I think they'd be twice as good if they were 6secondsTV.
Yes, video can show that you're creative, and it can be effective, but that's all about how and where you use it. Just as you should be disciplined to keep other pitches short, keep your video short if it's a primary pitch resource, and provide the data in

 other formats.
Video is an emotive topic and I'm sure everyone will have a different view. I'm not writing from a customer's POV. No doubt plenty of investors here will say they love it!
A











reincubate




Aidan Fitzpatrick,

Partner, 

Reincubate



E:

aidan@reincubate.com, T: +44 (0) 7817 681232



Accelerating growth of start-up & entrepreneurial businesses 




 

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 17:42, Barbara <[address removed]> wrote:

Hi all,
My start-up specialised in IT healthcare would need some advice and help to build a short video demo that aims at :


 giving a good glance of our application features once a new user has logged in


attract some interest (from customers,investors,experts) 

I would be grateful to benefit from the experience and advices of some of you who might already have done it and hopefully this would be helpful for others like me.
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,

Barbara

http://www.anoigma.com/blog/


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		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/patent-attorney-7183.html
		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/patent-attorney-7183.html#comments
		Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:51:00 +0000
		Kolvin Stone
				
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		

		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/patent-attorney-7183.html
		
			















I’ve been following

this debate loosely over the last few days and thought it would be helpful to

add the lawyer’s perspective:



class=003441414-25032009> 


* yes, you have have

to be prepared to enforce your patent but this does not necessarily mean you’ll

need to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds.  
class=951273914-25032009>Most disputes are resolved quickly. 

Ultimately, it depends on the strength of the patent.  



class=003441414-25032009> 



class=951273914-25032009>* Patent protection can act as

signifcant barrier to entry and this is not something that can be measured

against the cost of enforcement

action.  Also, having strong

patent protection can lead to a “succesful exit” rather than a

dispute. 



class=003441414-25032009> 


* no patent is 100%

guaranteed but the searches conducted in UK / Europe by the patent offices are

rigorous



class=003441414-25032009> 


* having a patent is

not a substitute for good service etc but can represent a very strong from

of protection for a business 



class=003441414-25032009> 


* yes, a patent can

be invented around but whether this is possible  / practicable depends on

the scope of the patent.  Don’t necessarily assume that all patents

can be invented around



class=003441414-25032009> 


*  yes,

investors like to see patents but the more sophisticated investors will carry

out DD to verify that the patent protects the business as it should

(i.e. the patent cannot be invented around easily)



class=003441414-25032009> 


There is no point in

having a patent just for the sake of it as it is an expensive

process. You have to decide whether the

scope of protection is such to protect the business and whether this is

worth the cost.  



class=003441414-25032009>
class=003441414-25032009> 


As always getting

good advice is key at the outset and I would recommend Howard Sands at Boult

Wade Tennant.  We refer patent prosecution work

to him. 



class=003441414-25032009> 


Best




class=003441414-25032009> 





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Direct dial:+44 (0)20 7614

2596
Direct fax:+44 (0)20 7614 1496 



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href="http://www.ebizlaw.co.uk/">
color=#0000ff>www.ebizlaw.co.uk

- the site for legal news and guidance for the tech

and online sector

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Street,

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regulated by Solicitors Regulation Authority. 
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From: [address removed]

[mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Mehdi

Siami
Sent: 25 March 2009 13:40
To:

[address removed]
Subject: Re: [entrepreneur-1056] Patent

Attorney



Hi Andy,




I can recommend David Gill, a partner at WP Thompson, details

below. He is extremely knowledgeable, ultra-efficient and a great guy

to work with.









style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 40px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">David

  Gill <
  href="mailto:[address removed]">[address removed]>

W.P.Thompson &

  Co.
55 Drury Lane,
London.
WC2B 5SQ

Tel: 020 7240 2220 (Int:

  +44 20 7240 2220)
Fax: 020 7240 8505 (Int: +44 20 7240

  8505)

Website: 
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Engineering



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Middlesex



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On 21 Mar 2009, at 14:58, Andy Clark wrote:

class=Apple-interchange-newline>



  
Hi All

  



  
Has anyone had any experience with a patent attorney who they

  can recommend their services?


  
Any tips will be much appreciated.


  



  
Regards


  
Andy Clark


  



  



  

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		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/selling-the-business-advice-needed-3-8251.html
		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/selling-the-business-advice-needed-3-8251.html#comments
		Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:08:00 +0000
		Jon Vollemaere
				
		
		
		

		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/selling-the-business-advice-needed-3-8251.html
		
			



Dear All,

One of our clients would like to sell her business.

( A temp and placement agency for the dental industry with 35% UK market

share)

It has high margins and has been profitable for 5+ years.

An ideal candidate for a related agency wanting to buy into the sector,

And/or a supplier of related services to dental practices.
Its not a tech business in any respect - but I'd like advice on how to

approach/find buyers without making the competition aware - or if there are

quality services ( govt or private ) available to assist the sale.
Other than via lawyers, accountants, bank relationships, anyone recommend a

good business broker ?
Cheers

JV
</pre


]]>
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		0
		
		
		
		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/selling-the-business-advice-needed-2-7655.html
		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/selling-the-business-advice-needed-2-7655.html#comments
		Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:08:00 +0000
		Jon Vollemaere
				
		
		
		

		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/selling-the-business-advice-needed-2-7655.html
		
			



Dear All,

One of our clients would like to sell her business.

( A temp and placement agency for the dental industry with 35% UK market

share)

It has high margins and has been profitable for 5+ years.

An ideal candidate for a related agency wanting to buy into the sector,

And/or a supplier of related services to dental practices.
Its not a tech business in any respect - but I'd like advice on how to

approach/find buyers without making the competition aware - or if there are

quality services ( govt or private ) available to assist the sale.
Other than via lawyers, accountants, bank relationships, anyone recommend a

good business broker ?
Cheers

JV



]]>
			http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/selling-the-business-advice-needed-2-7655.html/feed
		0
		
		
		
		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/selling-the-business-advice-needed-7251.html
		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/selling-the-business-advice-needed-7251.html#comments
		Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:08:00 +0000
		Jon Vollemaere
				
		
		
		

		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/selling-the-business-advice-needed-7251.html
		
			



Dear All,

One of our clients would like to sell her business.

( A temp and placement agency for the dental industry with 35% UK market

share)

It has high margins and has been profitable for 5+ years.

An ideal candidate for a related agency wanting to buy into the sector,

And/or a supplier of related services to dental practices.
Its not a tech business in any respect - but I'd like advice on how to

approach/find buyers without making the competition aware - or if there are

quality services ( govt or private ) available to assist the sale.
Other than via lawyers, accountants, bank relationships, anyone recommend a

good business broker ?
Cheers

JV



]]>
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		0
		
		
		
		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/recruiter-spam-49-8274.html
		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/recruiter-spam-49-8274.html#comments
		Fri, 20 Mar 2009 05:35:00 +0000
		Ronny Ager-Wick
				
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		

		http://mashinteractive.com/opencoffee/miscellaneous/recruiter-spam-49-8274.html
		
			



oooh, maybe I should reconsider, and convert back to a world where

inferior tools cost money, lock you in and generates incompatible code

- nah, don't think so! (yes, I said "back", so I do know both worlds,

and I know which is the best for "my" world, the entrepreneurial one)

Actually, I'm not sure if such a misinformed post is actually worth a

reply, as you're twisting this into a better/worse fight, which was not

my intention, not to mention being completely pointless, but for the

people out there that might be wondering, or wanting some more

information (probably not many, as this is an entrepreneur group, and

entrepreneurs tend to know about open source):
- there is a big difference between the two "camps" of software

developers - the technologists, hackers and developr that really love

their job, which usually developed form having it as a hobby, on one

side and the 9-to-5-working, education-centric

yeah-I-have-a-certificate! type employees who are in it for the salary.

You can guess yourself which technology stack each of these camps will

generally choose (yes I know there are exceptions, thus the use of the

word "generally") and which group produces innovation.

The original post was about recruiting - if you want to catch the best

fish, you need to use the right bait.
- "free" is not primarily about cost, it's about liberty, freedom and

safeguarding yourself from becoming a hostage (*). See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_Libre and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLOSS
- Why do Microsoft fanboys run around like headless chicken shouting

"ANTI-CAPITALIST!" when the word open-source is mentioned? Good

capitalists know how to prevent themselves from getting caught by

greedy corporates with a turnover comparable to a medium sized

country's GDP, which they have no way f controlling. However average

middle management employees in meaningless jobs, afraid of loosing

them, tend to gravitate towards technologies offered by big companies

because it sounds safe and nobody will fire them for making a safe

choice.

In fact if you want to make a political compariso; a proprietary

software model, when it grows too dominant, is like a dictatorship,

Free/Libre Open Source Software is Democracy.
(*) A lawyer friend of mine recently had a case where a technology

company had based their product on a proprietary technology they did

not own. The company owning the technology sold it to a big company,

who in turn retired the product. So the company who's entire existence

depended on it just got both its legs cut off and had to fight in court

to get the right to continue to use it. Lucky for them my friend is a

brilliant lawyer so they managed to get a deal, but for a lot of other

companies this is not the case.

Needless to say, had they based their product on a technology released

under a FLOSS license, and the maintainer of it got tired, retired, got

a real job or went back to college, they would still have the same

rights to use and continue to develop it, even take over if this

happened to be a very important piece of their puzzle.
It's not about what technology is "best", it's about what's best for

you and your company (in a idealistic OR capitalist way, whichever you

prefer) - in the long term.

Ronny.



ralph masilamani wrote:


Ronny

Ridiculous rant.

1. We’re in 2009 – perhaps your non-Microsoft tools can’t tell the time.

2. ‘Good Technologists’ can always extract the relative strength and

weaknesses of any technical choice – seems like you can’t which leads

me to believe your skills are lacking
3. Open source shield? Have you been watching star wars for the

32,768th time? You really need a new metaphor!
4. ‘REAL’ experts CAN tell you what .NET is good for and what it’s not.

Be vary wary of anyone envagelizing one or the other as they are more

than likely to be imbalanced.

IMHO,
.NET is still the best choice for rapid construction of rich

applications – Eclipse RCP, SWT, GWT etc are all playing catchup.

.NET is the best choice for an internet application that needs access

to the customers computer – OH!!! – Most of them are Windows machines

.NET is not free – you have to pay for Visual Studio – so that’s a cost

to consider
And by the way, I am not a .NET or MSFT developer.

I build complex business applications using various technology stacks

running on diverse global platforms.

You need to evaluate .NET on it’s applicability for your business needs

- not the rambling rants of some open source, anti-capitalist.
And on a lighter note, remember

Open Source is free, but so is dog poo!


From:

Ronny Ager-Wick <[address removed]>

  To:

[address removed]

  Sent: Thursday, 19

March, 2009 20:01:02

  Subject: Re:

[entrepreneur-1056] recruiter spam….

  

  not to mention...ASP.NET?!?!... I mean, what kind of web

entrepreneurs are using Microsoft technologies??? What happened? Are we

back in the 80s now???

You may or may not have a good idea but with the wrong technology

choice you've closed the door for the best hackers (or seriously good

software developers) in the world, who wouldn't touch you with a barge

pole. Then you're left with the code monkeys, and the "yeah, let's

study software development because the salary is high" wannabes...

Which is fine with me, I don't want them! I work with real hackers only

  
oops, did I say that out loud?

anyway, never mind attacking me with MS evangelism - I have an open

source shield and I know how to use it  
My advice to all of you: If you're starting up a web business of any

kind an you're not yourself a hacker, consult some (more than 1) REAL

experts on web technology for advice on technology platform *BEFORE*

you start hiring. Understand licensing and what it means for you, your

product, your company and the value of your company when you intend to

float it or sell it.

Starting from scratch after betting on the wrong technology, or

developers, is very, very expensive!
Ronny.

  

david j w bailey wrote:
Makes me wonder what sort of people are in

this group.

Surely AJAX code monkeys don’t hang out in entrepreneur groups waiting

for jobs? If you are asking us to search our networks for you, perhaps

you should offer a commission! After all WE are here to create

businesses.  
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
From:

Marc Bridgen 

    Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:30:16 -0400

    To: <[address removed]>

    Subject: RE: [entrepreneur-1056] recruiter spam….


Afternoon

All,
  
With

all this activity I had to get in!
  
We

are HIRING for a senior developer to work on www.gigjunkie.net:
  
Applicants

should have excellent skills in:  ASP.Net 3.5 and MVC, C#, AJAX, XML,

Web Services, SQL Server 2005, Visual Studio 2008, a continuous

integration environment and MSBuild, TDD, and preferably a queuing

technology such as MSMQ
·        

have a solid background of highly transactional websites, public

websites, enterprise level applications, localisation, profiling and

analysing data to produce trends
·        

understand the power of Web 2.0 and how it can be leveraged
·        

have experience of WWF and WCF, Subversion, an ORM such as NHibernate,

cloud computing and an Agile environment
  
Full

job spec: http://uk.crunchboard.com/opening/detailjob.php?jid=6148
  
Please

share this with any suitable applicants
  
  
  
We

are NOT using recruitment agencies, so PLEASE do not contact me.
  
  
Cheers,
  
  

Marc

Bridgen
  
GigJunkie
  
4th

Floor
95

Southwark Street
London

SE1 0HX
  
Mob:

07974 670 946
Tel:

020 7593 3035
Fax:

020 7593 3029
  
Trading

Company is Smart Tickets Ltd.
Registered

Office: Avalon Accounting, Equity House, 4-6

School Road, Tilehurst, Reading, Berks RG31 5AL.
Company

Registration Number: 6023008
  
The

information in this email is confidential and may be legally

privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this

email by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended

recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or

omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be

unlawful.

  


From: [address removed]

[mailto:[address removed]]

    On Behalf Of Owais Amiri

    Sent: 19 March 2009 17:20

    To: [address removed]

    Subject: Re: [entrepreneur-1056] recruiter spam….


  

Phil and Paul, Not surprised to read the list

of

grievances candidates have against Recruitment agencies. Even companies

have been victims of consultants hounding them, being rude to them or

being bombarded with aggressive phone calls. 


 


But hey, people choose the way they prefer to

do

business! 


 


Possibly I am new to recruitment, but I don’t

do

business the traditional way. We are small company and three altogether.


 


1) We recieve hundreds of irrelevant CVs for a

job posted on a job-board. For eg, I was looking for a Data Protection

Manager. Candidate must have an ISEB certificate in Data Protection. We

would recieve CVs from people who wouldn’t have a clue about data

protection or might’ve come across it the first time(if they take the

time to read the JD). So when we recieve hundreds of CV’s for one

position, it is not always possible to reply to each one of them.

However, we do have to go through each one of them because we are

paying to place an advert on job-boards.But believe me, when I come

across CVs that do match the job description but for some reason cannot

put them forward for the role, I do email them and wish them good luck

in their job hunt. 


 


2) I love it when candidates take the trouble

of

giving me a call to follow up once they’ve emailed me their CV or call

to find out why they were un-succesful. Phil, I would love to answer

every question I know of if candidates ask me but I don’t think its

wise to go on and on about the details of rejection when they show no

sign of interest themselves. I don’t mind telling them how many were

put forward and why they were rejected. I guess, the feedback helps

them in being smarter and revise their CVs if necessary for future

applications.


 


3) We don’t have the budget to keep

advertising

the jobs when it has already expired. I know there are companies out

there who do it the dirty way. We don’t and I am sure there are many

out there who don;t!! Sales is not all about fooling people! 


 


4) As far as Treating candidates with respect,

my colleagues have come across candidates who in turn when placed

became our clients. They have used us for their staff requirements

because of the respect and service they recieved. 


 


5) Whenever I have located a CV on job-boards

which does match the job description and I beleive he is a good fit.

First thing I ask when I call them is, “is it a convenient time to

speak?”. I read out the job description to them briefly, talk to them

about the salary. If they show interest, I DO NOT forward their CV to

the client there and then, I infact email them the job description and

the company’s details. Talk to them about the company environment and

culture (if its formal/casual, busy/relaxed, tensed/spread out, etc)

and then wait for them to email me their updated CV. If there is a need

to highlight a few things on the CV so that they have a better chance

to qualify for the job, I work on it with them! 


 


I have made friends with candidates! 


 


I love my job and I know some careless, greedy

people out there have spoilt its rep. But hey, some good ones are still

alive. I am not here on this forum to sell any of my services, so

please do not freak out! I have an enterpreneural flair and would love

to develop my skills and knowledge unlike others here. 


 


Apologies for writing the longest email of the

century!


 


Cheers!



Owais Amiri!


 


 



 


2009/3/19 phil jones <[address removed]>
I’d say that in current circumstances, we

don’t

want to be hostile to

anyone who knows about good jobs  
But I think there’s a great opportunity for a recruiter who raises

their game above the others. Way too many of them work on a “throw

enough mud against the wall” principle. Too many recruiters I’ve seem

post jobs to get you to register your CV and then you never hear

anything about the job you applied for but start getting spammed with

a lot of badly matching adverts that read like they’ve been scraped

off someone else’s site.
Or spammed with other “keep in contact” fluff. I swear that one agency

spammed me last week with something about “how to write a great cover

letter” that was tied in with a story-telling festival or something.

Clever … but in a trite way. Making me think that these people had

no real information to give me.
Here’s what I’d like from a better recruiter.
1) Tracking of my CV application. When I send a CV to you for a job,

I’d like to see what stage it’s reached in the process. Did you read

my CV yet? Did you reject is as not a good fit? Did you reject it

because you didn’t think it’s good enough? Did you pass it on to the

employer and get a rejection back? Or nothing?
I won’t be offended or have my feeling hurt; give me real feedback

about my application. Tell me why I failed. THEN you can start giving

me advice on doing a better one, or applying for better fitting jobs.
2) Tracking the Job. It’s inexcusable to keep advertising a job that’s

already gone. Or that you’ve scraped off another site. I want an

agency that only shows jobs that that it’s been hired to recruit for

and has good knowledge of. And I want the agency to tell me, as an

applicant, what’s going on with that position. How many other people

applied? If I get rejected, how many other people are left in the

running? (Am I in the top 3 or was I filtered out when 50 others were

put forward?) And I want an email the moment you know that the job

went to someone else, so I’m not still wondering about it and can be

on to the next thing.
3) Give me as much real information about the company as possible.

Treat me with respect, not paranoia. If you help me find a job with a

great company, I’m not going to go directly to them and screw you out

of your middle-man fee. Don’t hide all the real information as though

I might.
4) Loads of other ways you can add value. When you post the salary

that’s offered, show me statistics of other, similar positions you

know about. Is this a good salary for this kind of job? Other sites

track the average salary for different positions, why can’t you?
5) Better filtering. I’m not a .NET guy. There’s nothing about .NET on

my CV. Sure, as a C, C++, Java, LAMP-stack guy I *could* learn .NET

pretty easily if I needed to. But I didn’t mention it. So why are you

sending me dozens of .NET jobs as “good matches”?
6) Why not find out more about me? You got a CV. Perhaps you could

have more online questionnaires. Take a leaf out of the social

networks like Facebook who are always asking me to classify myself in

different ways. Sure, I’m not going to tell you about “Things I do

when the boss isn’t looking” but there are some mutually beneficial

questions you can ask, to help me know more about myself and you (and

potential employers) to know more about me.
Recruiting has a bad rep. with a lot of people, because it’s just not

done all that well. Like I say, that’s a great opportunity for someone

to do it much better.
phil



On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Anshu Bathla <[address removed]>

wrote:

> Hey,

>

> We’ve got an interesting conversation here. Bill, I agree with you

to an

> extent (may be you have had worse experiences, relatively).. also

Owais is

> correct upto a good extent.

>

> I can say this with my own experience being on both ends, I was a

candidate

> two years ago and was after recruitment agencies to get me placed

in a role

> of my choice..as I had come across many cases where agency guys

had really

> made efforts in getting candidates placed.. but now I see in my

company how

> senior guys scrutinise recruitment agencies first and then make a

decision

> whether to go with a head-hunter or not, which is justifiable to

me and

> hence my opinion.

>

> My opinion is instead of shoo-ing head hunters away, just for that

matter,

> companies must see their portfolio and check out the quality of

candidates

> they hold on to. After all, they are specialists in their role (at

least

> some of them really are) and can do head hunting in a much more

effective

> manner than a normal HR guy in any company.

>

> Rest is upto recruiters – if they have a sharp eye and can do

without

> recruiters, well and good… but still they have to spend money

somewhere

> (O_O) !

>

> Good Luck to all parties involved – candidates, recruiters, head

hunters.

>

> Cheers,

> Anshu

>

>

> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 09:33, Owais Amiri <[address removed]>

wrote:

>>

>> Not every recruitment agency or recruitment consultant are

evil and

>> deserve the rude treatment. Keep in mind they are humans on

the recieving

>> end.

>>

>> There are hundreds and thousands of candidates and companies

out there who

>> cannot do without Recruitment agencies.

>>

>> Not a very polite way of dealing with spam(if it was one).

>>

>> Kind Regards

>>

>> Owais Amiri

>>

>> PS: I am an IT recruitment consultant and have been in the

industry for 3

>> months.

>>

>>

>> 2009/3/19 Bill Brown <[address removed]>

>>>

>>> Recruiters send spam like that to my email 20 times a day.

They

>>> autogenerate jobs and send them everywhere by the million

just

>>> to collect cvs. Then they try to get leads from you.

>>> Vermin – obviously you don’t deal with them yourself or you

>>> would understand.

>>>

>>> Next viagra on dreamstake……

>>>

>>> 2009/3/19 Bill Brown <[address removed]>

>>>>

>>>> You are a recruitment agency????

>>>> Oh noooooooooooooo – GO AWAY.

>>>>

>>>> 2009/3/19 Kay Vasey <[address removed]>

>>>>>

>>>>> Greetings!

>>>>>

>>>>> We’re looking for a company who can code in Python

(using the Django

>>>>> framework) to pick up where our current developer

is leaving off in April.

>>>>> Does anyone have any recommendations?

>>>>>

>>>>> Thank you very much in advance.

>>>>>

>>>>> Kay

>>>>>

>>>>> –

>>>>> Kay Vasey :: Director

>>>>> ——————————-

>>>>> Mesh – The Cultural Marketplace

>>>>> Connect :: Invest :: Experience

>>>>>

>>>>> Mobile: +65 9150 3521

>>>>> Skype: kayvasey

>>>>>

>>>>> [address removed]

>>>>> http://www.meshminds.com

>>>>> http://www.meshminds.blogspot.com

>>>>>

>>>>> Company No. 5898203

>>>>> VAT Reg. No. 891 1086 20

>>>>> Registered address: 57 Mildmay Road, London N1 4PU

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> –

>>>>> Please Note: If you hit “REPLY”, your message will

be sent to everyone

>>>>> on this mailing list ([address removed])

>>>>> This message was sent by Kay Vasey ([address removed])

from London

>>>>> OpenCoffee Meetup.

>>>>> To learn more about Kay Vasey, visit his/her

member profile

>>>>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list

settings, click here

>>>>>

>>>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]

>>>>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> –

>>>> Please Note: If you hit “REPLY”, your message will be

sent to everyone

>>>> on this mailing list ([address removed])

>>>> This message was sent by Bill Brown ([address removed])

from London

>>>> OpenCoffee Meetup.

>>>> To learn more about Bill Brown, visit his/her member

profile

>>>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list

settings, click here

>>>>

>>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]

>>>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> –

>>> Please Note: If you hit “REPLY”, your message will be sent

to everyone on

>>> this mailing list ([address removed])

>>> This message was sent by Bill Brown ([address removed])

from London

>>> OpenCoffee Meetup.

>>> To learn more about Bill Brown, visit his/her member

profile

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click here

>>>

>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]

>>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> –

>> Please Note: If you hit “REPLY”, your message will be sent to

everyone on

>> this mailing list ([address removed])

>> This message was sent by Owais Amiri ([address removed]) from

London

>> OpenCoffee Meetup.

>> To learn more about Owais Amiri, visit his/her member profile

>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click

here

>>

>> Meetup Support: [address removed]

>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA

>

>

>

>

> –

> Please Note: If you hit “REPLY”, your message will be sent to

everyone on

> this mailing list ([address removed])

> This message was sent by Anshu Bathla ([address removed]) from

London

> OpenCoffee Meetup.

> To learn more about Anshu Bathla, visit his/her member profile

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>

> Meetup Support: [address removed]

> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
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Meetup Support: [address removed]

632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA





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		Fri, 20 Mar 2009 05:35:00 +0000
		Ronny Ager-Wick
				
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
		

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oooh, maybe I should reconsider, and convert back to a world where

inferior tools cost money, lock you in and generates incompatible code

- nah, don't think so! (yes, I said "back", so I do know both worlds,

and I know which is the best for "my" world, the entrepreneurial one)

Actually, I'm not sure if such a misinformed post is actually worth a

reply, as you're twisting this into a better/worse fight, which was not

my intention, not to mention being completely pointless, but for the

people out there that might be wondering, or wanting some more

information (probably not many, as this is an entrepreneur group, and

entrepreneurs tend to know about open source):
- there is a big difference between the two "camps" of software

developers - the technologists, hackers and developr that really love

their job, which usually developed form having it as a hobby, on one

side and the 9-to-5-working, education-centric

yeah-I-have-a-certificate! type employees who are in it for the salary.

You can guess yourself which technology stack each of these camps will

generally choose (yes I know there are exceptions, thus the use of the

word "generally") and which group produces innovation.

The original post was about recruiting - if you want to catch the best

fish, you need to use the right bait.
- "free" is not primarily about cost, it's about liberty, freedom and

safeguarding yourself from becoming a hostage (*). See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_Libre and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLOSS
- Why do Microsoft fanboys run around like headless chicken shouting

"ANTI-CAPITALIST!" when the word open-source is mentioned? Good

capitalists know how to prevent themselves from getting caught by

greedy corporates with a turnover comparable to a medium sized

country's GDP, which they have no way f controlling. However average

middle management employees in meaningless jobs, afraid of loosing

them, tend to gravitate towards technologies offered by big companies

because it sounds safe and nobody will fire them for making a safe

choice.

In fact if you want to make a political compariso; a proprietary

software model, when it grows too dominant, is like a dictatorship,

Free/Libre Open Source Software is Democracy.
(*) A lawyer friend of mine recently had a case where a technology

company had based their product on a proprietary technology they did

not own. The company owning the technology sold it to a big company,

who in turn retired the product. So the company who's entire existence

depended on it just got both its legs cut off and had to fight in court

to get the right to continue to use it. Lucky for them my friend is a

brilliant lawyer so they managed to get a deal, but for a lot of other

companies this is not the case.

Needless to say, had they based their product on a technology released

under a FLOSS license, and the maintainer of it got tired, retired, got

a real job or went back to college, they would still have the same

rights to use and continue to develop it, even take over if this

happened to be a very important piece of their puzzle.
It's not about what technology is "best", it's about what's best for

you and your company (in a idealistic OR capitalist way, whichever you

prefer) - in the long term.

Ronny.



ralph masilamani wrote:

 type="cite">

 style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
Ronny

Ridiculous rant.

1. We’re in 2009 – perhaps your non-Microsoft tools can’t tell the time.

2. ‘Good Technologists’ can always extract the relative strength and

weaknesses of any technical choice – seems like you can’t which leads

me to believe your skills are lacking
3. Open source shield? Have you been watching star wars for the

32,768th time? You really need a new metaphor!
4. ‘REAL’ experts CAN tell you what .NET is good for and what it’s not.

Be vary wary of anyone envagelizing one or the other as they are more

than likely to be imbalanced.

IMHO,
.NET is still the best choice for rapid construction of rich

applications – Eclipse RCP, SWT, GWT etc are all playing catchup.

.NET is the best choice for an internet application that needs access

to the customers computer – OH!!! – Most of them are Windows machines

.NET is not free – you have to pay for Visual Studio – so that’s a cost

to consider
And by the way, I am not a .NET or MSFT developer.

I build complex business applications using various technology stacks

running on diverse global platforms.

You need to evaluate .NET on it’s applicability for your business needs

- not the rambling rants of some open source, anti-capitalist.
And on a lighter note, remember

Open Source is free, but so is dog poo!

 style="font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">


 style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
 face="Tahoma" size="2">

From:

Ronny Ager-Wick <[address removed]>

  To:

[address removed]

  Sent: Thursday, 19

March, 2009 20:01:02

  Subject: Re:

[entrepreneur-1056] recruiter spam….

  

  not to mention...ASP.NET?!?!... I mean, what kind of web

entrepreneurs are using Microsoft technologies??? What happened? Are we

back in the 80s now???

You may or may not have a good idea but with the wrong technology

choice you've closed the door for the best hackers (or seriously good

software developers) in the world, who wouldn't touch you with a barge

pole. Then you're left with the code monkeys, and the "yeah, let's

study software development because the salary is high" wannabes...

Which is fine with me, I don't want them! I work with real hackers only

  
oops, did I say that out loud?

anyway, never mind attacking me with MS evangelism - I have an open

source shield and I know how to use it  
My advice to all of you: If you're starting up a web business of any

kind an you're not yourself a hacker, consult some (more than 1) REAL

experts on web technology for advice on technology platform *BEFORE*

you start hiring. Understand licensing and what it means for you, your

product, your company and the value of your company when you intend to

float it or sell it.

Starting from scratch after betting on the wrong technology, or

developers, is very, very expensive!
Ronny.

  

david j w bailey wrote:
Makes me wonder what sort of people are in

this group.

Surely AJAX code monkeys don’t hang out in entrepreneur groups waiting

for jobs? If you are asking us to search our networks for you, perhaps

you should offer a commission! After all WE are here to create

businesses.  
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
From:

Marc Bridgen 

    Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:30:16 -0400

    To: <[address removed]>

    Subject: RE: [entrepreneur-1056] recruiter spam….



 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Afternoon

All,

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">With

all this activity I had to get in!

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">We

are HIRING for a senior developer to work on 
 rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.gigjunkie.net">www.gigjunkie.net:

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Applicants

should have excellent skills in:  ASP.Net 3.5 and MVC, C#, AJAX, XML,

Web Services, SQL Server 2005, Visual Studio 2008, a continuous

integration environment and MSBuild, TDD, and preferably a queuing

technology such as MSMQ

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">·        

have a solid background of highly transactional websites, public

websites, enterprise level applications, localisation, profiling and

analysing data to produce trends

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">·        

understand the power of Web 2.0 and how it can be leveraged

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">·        

have experience of WWF and WCF, Subversion, an ORM such as NHibernate,

cloud computing and an Agile environment

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Full

job spec: 
 href="http://uk.crunchboard.com/opening/detailjob.php?jid=6148">http://uk.crunchboard.com/opening/detailjob.php?jid=6148

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Please

share this with any suitable applicants

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">We

are NOT using recruitment agencies, so PLEASE do not contact me.

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Cheers,

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  


 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Marc

Bridgen

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
 moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"

 href="http://www.gigjunkie.net/">GigJunkie

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">4th

Floor

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">95

Southwark Street

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">London

SE1 0HX

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Mob:

07974 670 946

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Tel:

020 7593 3035

 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Fax:

020 7593 3029

 style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  

 style="font-size: 6pt; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" lang="EN-US">Trading

Company is Smart Tickets Ltd.

 style="font-size: 6pt; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" lang="EN-US">Registered

Office: Avalon Accounting, Equity House, 4-6

School Road, Tilehurst, Reading, Berks RG31 5AL.

 style="font-size: 6pt; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" lang="EN-US">Company

Registration Number: 6023008

 style="font-size: 6pt; color: rgb(127, 127, 127);" lang="EN-US">  

 style="font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(0, 24, 54);">The

information in this email is confidential and may be legally

privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this

email by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended

recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or

omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be

unlawful.


 style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">  


 style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
From:
 style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-US"> [address removed]

[mailto:[address removed]]

    On Behalf Of Owais Amiri

    Sent: 19 March 2009 17:20

    To: [address removed]

    Subject: Re: [entrepreneur-1056] recruiter spam….


  

Phil and Paul, Not surprised to read the list

of

grievances candidates have against Recruitment agencies. Even companies

have been victims of consultants hounding them, being rude to them or

being bombarded with aggressive phone calls. 


 


But hey, people choose the way they prefer to

do

business! 


 


Possibly I am new to recruitment, but I don’t

do

business the traditional way. We are small company and three altogether.


 


1) We recieve hundreds of irrelevant CVs for a

job posted on a job-board. For eg, I was looking for a Data Protection

Manager. Candidate must have an ISEB certificate in Data Protection. We

would recieve CVs from people who wouldn’t have a clue about data

protection or might’ve come across it the first time(if they take the

time to read the JD). So when we recieve hundreds of CV’s for one

position, it is not always possible to reply to each one of them.

However, we do have to go through each one of them because we are

paying to place an advert on job-boards.But believe me, when I come

across CVs that do match the job description but for some reason cannot

put them forward for the role, I do email them and wish them good luck

in their job hunt. 


 


2) I love it when candidates take the trouble

of

giving me a call to follow up once they’ve emailed me their CV or call

to find out why they were un-succesful. Phil, I would love to answer

every question I know of if candidates ask me but I don’t think its

wise to go on and on about the details of rejection when they show no

sign of interest themselves. I don’t mind telling them how many were

put forward and why they were rejected. I guess, the feedback helps

them in being smarter and revise their CVs if necessary for future

applications.


 


3) We don’t have the budget to keep

advertising

the jobs when it has already expired. I know there are companies out

there who do it the dirty way. We don’t and I am sure there are many

out there who don;t!! Sales is not all about fooling people! 


 


4) As far as Treating candidates with respect,

my colleagues have come across candidates who in turn when placed

became our clients. They have used us for their staff requirements

because of the respect and service they recieved. 


 


5) Whenever I have located a CV on job-boards

which does match the job description and I beleive he is a good fit.

First thing I ask when I call them is, “is it a convenient time to

speak?”. I read out the job description to them briefly, talk to them

about the salary. If they show interest, I DO NOT forward their CV to

the client there and then, I infact email them the job description and

the company’s details. Talk to them about the company environment and

culture (if its formal/casual, busy/relaxed, tensed/spread out, etc)

and then wait for them to email me their updated CV. If there is a need

to highlight a few things on the CV so that they have a better chance

to qualify for the job, I work on it with them! 


 


I have made friends with candidates! 


 


I love my job and I know some careless, greedy

people out there have spoilt its rep. But hey, some good ones are still

alive. I am not here on this forum to sell any of my services, so

please do not freak out! I have an enterpreneural flair and would love

to develop my skills and knowledge unlike others here. 


 


Apologies for writing the longest email of the

century!


 


Cheers!



Owais Amiri!


 


 



 


2009/3/19 phil jones <[address removed]>
I’d say that in current circumstances, we

don’t

want to be hostile to

anyone who knows about good jobs  
But I think there’s a great opportunity for a recruiter who raises

their game above the others. Way too many of them work on a “throw

enough mud against the wall” principle. Too many recruiters I’ve seem

post jobs to get you to register your CV and then you never hear

anything about the job you applied for but start getting spammed with

a lot of badly matching adverts that read like they’ve been scraped

off someone else’s site.
Or spammed with other “keep in contact” fluff. I swear that one agency

spammed me last week with something about “how to write a great cover

letter” that was tied in with a story-telling festival or something.

Clever … but in a trite way. Making me think that these people had

no real information to give me.
Here’s what I’d like from a better recruiter.
1) Tracking of my CV application. When I send a CV to you for a job,

I’d like to see what stage it’s reached in the process. Did you read

my CV yet? Did you reject is as not a good fit? Did you reject it

because you didn’t think it’s good enough? Did you pass it on to the

employer and get a rejection back? Or nothing?
I won’t be offended or have my feeling hurt; give me real feedback

about my application. Tell me why I failed. THEN you can start giving

me advice on doing a better one, or applying for better fitting jobs.
2) Tracking the Job. It’s inexcusable to keep advertising a job that’s

already gone. Or that you’ve scraped off another site. I want an

agency that only shows jobs that that it’s been hired to recruit for

and has good knowledge of. And I want the agency to tell me, as an

applicant, what’s going on with that position. How many other people

applied? If I get rejected, how many other people are left in the

running? (Am I in the top 3 or was I filtered out when 50 others were

put forward?) And I want an email the moment you know that the job

went to someone else, so I’m not still wondering about it and can be

on to the next thing.
3) Give me as much real information about the company as possible.

Treat me with respect, not paranoia. If you help me find a job with a

great company, I’m not going to go directly to them and screw you out

of your middle-man fee. Don’t hide all the real information as though

I might.
4) Loads of other ways you can add value. When you post the salary

that’s offered, show me statistics of other, similar positions you

know about. Is this a good salary for this kind of job? Other sites

track the average salary for different positions, why can’t you?
5) Better filtering. I’m not a .NET guy. There’s nothing about .NET on

my CV. Sure, as a C, C++, Java, LAMP-stack guy I *could* learn .NET

pretty easily if I needed to. But I didn’t mention it. So why are you

sending me dozens of .NET jobs as “good matches”?
6) Why not find out more about me? You got a CV. Perhaps you could

have more online questionnaires. Take a leaf out of the social

networks like Facebook who are always asking me to classify myself in

different ways. Sure, I’m not going to tell you about “Things I do

when the boss isn’t looking” but there are some mutually beneficial

questions you can ask, to help me know more about myself and you (and

potential employers) to know more about me.
Recruiting has a bad rep. with a lot of people, because it’s just not

done all that well. Like I say, that’s a great opportunity for someone

to do it much better.
phil



On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Anshu Bathla <[address removed]>

wrote:

> Hey,

>

> We’ve got an interesting conversation here. Bill, I agree with you

to an

> extent (may be you have had worse experiences, relatively).. also

Owais is

> correct upto a good extent.

>

> I can say this with my own experience being on both ends, I was a

candidate

> two years ago and was after recruitment agencies to get me placed

in a role

> of my choice..as I had come across many cases where agency guys

had really

> made efforts in getting candidates placed.. but now I see in my

company how

> senior guys scrutinise recruitment agencies first and then make a

decision

> whether to go with a head-hunter or not, which is justifiable to

me and

> hence my opinion.

>

> My opinion is instead of shoo-ing head hunters away, just for that

matter,

> companies must see their portfolio and check out the quality of

candidates

> they hold on to. After all, they are specialists in their role (at

least

> some of them really are) and can do head hunting in a much more

effective

> manner than a normal HR guy in any company.

>

> Rest is upto recruiters – if they have a sharp eye and can do

without

> recruiters, well and good… but still they have to spend money

somewhere

> (O_O) !

>

> Good Luck to all parties involved – candidates, recruiters, head

hunters.

>

> Cheers,

> Anshu

>

>

> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 09:33, Owais Amiri <[address removed]>

wrote:

>>

>> Not every recruitment agency or recruitment consultant are

evil and

>> deserve the rude treatment. Keep in mind they are humans on

the recieving

>> end.

>>

>> There are hundreds and thousands of candidates and companies

out there who

>> cannot do without Recruitment agencies.

>>

>> Not a very polite way of dealing with spam(if it was one).

>>

>> Kind Regards

>>

>> Owais Amiri

>>

>> PS: I am an IT recruitment consultant and have been in the

industry for 3

>> months.

>>

>>

>> 2009/3/19 Bill Brown <[address removed]>

>>>

>>> Recruiters send spam like that to my email 20 times a day.

They

>>> autogenerate jobs and send them everywhere by the million

just

>>> to collect cvs. Then they try to get leads from you.

>>> Vermin – obviously you don’t deal with them yourself or you

>>> would understand.

>>>

>>> Next viagra on dreamstake……

>>>

>>> 2009/3/19 Bill Brown <[address removed]>

>>>>

>>>> You are a recruitment agency????

>>>> Oh noooooooooooooo – GO AWAY.

>>>>

>>>> 2009/3/19 Kay Vasey <[address removed]>

>>>>>

>>>>> Greetings!

>>>>>

>>>>> We’re looking for a company who can code in Python

(using the Django

>>>>> framework) to pick up where our current developer

is leaving off in April.

>>>>> Does anyone have any recommendations?

>>>>>

>>>>> Thank you very much in advance.

>>>>>

>>>>> Kay

>>>>>

>>>>> –

>>>>> Kay Vasey :: Director

>>>>> ——————————-

>>>>> Mesh – The Cultural Marketplace

>>>>> Connect :: Invest :: Experience

>>>>>

>>>>> Mobile: +65 9150 3521

>>>>> Skype: kayvasey

>>>>>

>>>>> [address removed]

>>>>> 
 target="_blank" href="http://www.meshminds.com/">http://www.meshminds.com

>>>>> 
 target="_blank" href="http://www.meshminds.blogspot.com/">http://www.meshminds.blogspot.com

>>>>>

>>>>> Company No. 5898203

>>>>> VAT Reg. No. 891 1086 20

>>>>> Registered address: 57 Mildmay Road, London N1 4PU

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> –

>>>>> Please Note: If you hit “REPLY”, your message will

be sent to everyone

>>>>> on this mailing list ([address removed])

>>>>> This message was sent by Kay Vasey ([address removed])

from London

>>>>> OpenCoffee Meetup.

>>>>> To learn more about Kay Vasey, visit his/her

member profile

>>>>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list

settings, click here

>>>>>

>>>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]

>>>>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> –

>>>> Please Note: If you hit “REPLY”, your message will be

sent to everyone

>>>> on this mailing list ([address removed])

>>>> This message was sent by Bill Brown ([address removed])

from London

>>>> OpenCoffee Meetup.

>>>> To learn more about Bill Brown, visit his/her member

profile

>>>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list

settings, click here

>>>>

>>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]

>>>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> –

>>> Please Note: If you hit “REPLY”, your message will be sent

to everyone on

>>> this mailing list ([address removed])

>>> This message was sent by Bill Brown ([address removed])

from London

>>> OpenCoffee Meetup.

>>> To learn more about Bill Brown, visit his/her member

profile

>>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings,

click here

>>>

>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]

>>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> –

>> Please Note: If you hit “REPLY”, your message will be sent to

everyone on

>> this mailing list ([address removed])

>> This message was sent by Owais Amiri ([address removed]) from

London

>> OpenCoffee Meetup.

>> To learn more about Owais Amiri, visit his/her member profile

>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click

here

>>

>> Meetup Support: [address removed]

>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA

>

>

>

>

> –

> Please Note: If you hit “REPLY”, your message will be sent to

everyone on

> this mailing list ([address removed])

> This message was sent by Anshu Bathla ([address removed]) from

London

> OpenCoffee Meetup.

> To learn more about Anshu Bathla, visit his/her member profile

> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

>

> Meetup Support: [address removed]

> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
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OpenCoffee Meetup.

To learn more about phil jones, visit his/her member profile: 
 moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"

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